Another one bites the dust

[Tessa K]

According to today's Guardian, a new study published in the New England Journal of Medicine shows that in trials, echinacea performed no better than a placebo at stopping colds or lessening symptoms.

Cue choruses of 'Well, it worked for me...'

[Tom Morris]

Yet another data point in a tentative "inference of uselessness". Overall, the sociologically defined group of 'CAM', when tested, has been useless. I'm not talking about how if one tested positively, it would become 'real medicine'. I'm saying that what is currently marketed as CAM has, when tested, been shown to be useless.

Results of this inference? The onus is definitely upon the advocates of this medicine to back up their claims, not us. I would go so far as to say that if the set of CAM medicines had a rate of frequent success - ie. that they are tested and come out better than placebo/non-treatment - then the onus would be on us to demonstrate their ineffiaciousness.

But, just as a sorting mechanism, whatever the socially defined group is - in this case CAM is defined as much by the type of medicine as by the people who use it, and importantly, the philosophy to which they hold - we should ignore it until it manages to climb over the bell curve.

[Tessa K]

People who make claims for such remedies often use the argument that many prescription medicines are based on plant originals. Therefore, if some plants can cure us, they all can. It is alarming how many people are prepared to take (and pay for) treatments that have never been tested, putting their faith in the fluffy rather than the factual.

There is also the argument that it doesn't matter if something has a placebo effect, as long as it works.

[Sid_Rodrigues]

Adding to Tess' point, as far as I know, almost all the worlds deadliest toxins come from plant or animal origins.

Would anyone like to make a list? You get free-satans-fingers at the next skeptics in the pub!

[Tessa K]

Adding to Tess' point, as far as I know, almost all the worlds deadliest toxins come from plant or animal origins.

And then there are the plants that are useful in certain doses and harmful in others. How to tell them apart without scientific experimentation?

I have no objection to herbal medicines in principal. The problem with them is that you do not know what impurities they contain and what strength dose you are getting, as the active content can vary from plant to plant, season to season. I'd much rather get a clean, standardized dose of aspirin than nibble a bit of bark that may have fly poo on it and which may or may not have the right dose. The argument that they are 'more gentle', that they 'work in harmony with the body' or that they don't have the same side-effects is nonsense.

A chemical is a chemical is a chemical.

Sid - there is an A on the end of my name!

[jimk]

Natural is not always better. For example, companies that make flavorings use artifical flavoring to make almond extract. If they used the "better" natural almond flavoring they would have to remove the highly toxic posion cyianide!

Okay you might claim they are motivated by profit, that they want repeat customers.

There is a myth or widspread belief that natural substances somehow have "life force" in them and are thus better for you. This stems from the primitive beleif that if you eat your enemies brians you will gain some of his power etc.

[faithlessgod]

There is a myth or widspread belief that natural substances somehow have "life force" in them and are thus better for you. This stems from the primitive beleif that if you eat your enemies brians you will gain some of his power etc.

And kuru :D

[aab1]

That study was purposefully skewed to protect pharmaceutical companies. THOUSANDS of studies prove the efficiency of echinacea at boosting the immune system. Again, try it before saying something doesn't work, because it would. Echinacea is the #1 most sold legal herb in the USA, doesn't that tell you enough?

[aab1]

Prescription and non prescription drugs are the 4th leading cause of death in america, when used properly, isn't that enough to not touch those poisons? And conventional medecine in general is the #1 cause of death in usa, killing 784 000 people a year. Not at all what I call "medecine".

[aab1]

Oops, look like echinacea really is very effective after all, just noit when the study is setup to make it look worthless:
http://www.newstarget.com/005454.html
http://www.newstarget.com/010834.html

The studies that falsely claim echinacea isn't effective are done by people more interested in your money than your health because natural products are not patentable and therefor cannot generate any significant profit like drugs. Thousands of doctors around the world, not in drugged countries like the US, are prescribing echinacea to their patients with great results.

[faithlessgod]

The studies that falsely claim echinacea is effective are done by people more interested in your money than your health because these products rely on the myth,amongst others, that natural is good and can generate them profits without being required to show it works before being made available to the gullible public. They convince thousands of non-medically qualified "health practioners" to prescribe echinacea to their patients, laughing all the way to the bank.

[aab1]

You people are dumber than humanly imaginable. Name one drug that cures a disease, there are none AT ALL (infections aren't a disease, plus antibiotics were a natural product before it was synthethized).

Anyway, get it straight from medical doctors:
http://jetcopies.com/drug.mpg

ALL drugs CAUSE diseases.

What about cholesterol lowering drugs? The studies show that:
-They do not at all reduce the risk of heart attack
-They cause alzeihmers, cancer and muscle problems
-Blueberries have been proven more effective to lower cholesterol

The real quackery is conventional medecine, I know, I lived this, they tried to make me beleive my disease was incurable to sell me drugs for life, a few months ago I discovered these terrorist's lies and cured my "incurable" disease, they can no longer make $1000/month off my suffering. Those criminals will be in jail some day.

[aab1]

And by the way, I and many people on my family and friends used Echinacea with incredible success, it is scientifically proven, you morons. Or is it just that you invest or work for drug companies?

[Jules Grimm]

Aab1 - why is it that whenever a person who believes in these "cures" talks to a person who is even vaguely living in the real world, they always resort to accusing them of working for pharmaceutical companies if they challenge the fantasy world that some people appear to live in? :evil: Makes me so mad! If all of those people did really work for the pharmaceutical companies then they would have to be so big that there would be no other space for any other industry. It like people playing the race card, except i'm damned if i'll just walk away from that sort of accusation.

How about this - how do we know that you're not working for one of those alternative health companies? Its just as likely - if not more likely to be true than the reverse.

And if you're such a mental neanderthal (if you dont know what that means - find a dictionary) that you need to start throwing names around then maybe you should go and play with the other kids in your play pen and leave the adults to have a rational conversation.
Thank you.

[N=1]

How to fight cancer the 'natural' way: http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=19&story_id=4821