Magic

[Baz94]

Just a quesion guys.

I was wondering your view on magic?
Now before you bite my head of and go crazy, I am not referring to the art of luna mystics or wicca stuff!
I mean magic as in illusions and card tricks.

personally, I am a skeptik and happy to be so.
But when it comes to illusions and tricks, I don't see how being a skeptik can come into the equasion. After all, it is just watching a "trick". I know it isn't REALLY the use of powers etc as does the guy doing the trick.
So why do skeptiks get irate about this?
I heard that someone attended a skeptiks meating but was asked to leave when they found out he was a magician.
I can't understand this. Aftyer all, it is simply acting.

What's your views on this?

p.s. Nice site and hello to all!

[Tessa K]

So why do skeptiks get irate about this?
I heard that someone attended a skeptiks meating but was asked to leave when they found out he was a magician.
I can't understand this. Aftyer all, it is simply acting

What skeptics? Where did you hear that?

I know plenty of skeptics who enjoy magic. What we're not so keen on are people claiming to have psychic powers who are in fact frauds.

[Baz94]

Thanks for that Tessa.

I only heard that when the guy in question said about magic, 2 people walked out and he was asked to leave.

Perhaps he didn't quite say the kind of magic he was into.

I agree with you with reference to the kind of frauds that are about claiming to be warlocks, witches, pal readers andother such things.

I went to a psychic fair once (UNDER PROTEST I MIGHT ADD). I never have believed in any of that crap.
While there, I showed a tarrot reader for what she really was.

Silly cow told my my dad was with me and always will be.
"Bloody hope not! He is at home watching the football!" I told her..... after looking nervous she decided to change it to another person etc.
What cobblers!

[Tessa K]

I only heard that when the guy in question said about magic, 2 people walked out and he was asked to leave.

Perhaps he didn't quite say the kind of magic he was into.

Where and when was this?

[fletch]

I would say that an appreciation of magic(conjuring) should be almost a compulsory part of a good skeptics general knowledge. Unless you have a good idea of certain principles of deception(eg drawing duplication etc.)
how can you possibly spot a fake posing as a psychic?

[Baz94]

how can you possibly spot a fake posing as a psychic?

They are all fakes so every one that you spot, you know is a fake.

[fletch]

Yes, I agree they are all most certainly fake, however surely you need some evidence to show that they are likely to be cheating. This is where knowledge of magic comes in.

In the Equinox programme (on channel 4) they explained that various methods used for a variety of effects such as two person telepathy,metal bending,drawing duplication, blindfold driving,contacting spirits etc., could all be accomplished by conjuring methods.

While this doesn't "prove" psychics are cheating, surely the observer can be more informed and aware of the possibilities.

[Dappadee]

While this doesn't "prove" psychics are cheating, surely the observer can be more informed and aware of the possibilities.

I think the fact that no one has ever managed to show how they can project or read minds outside of their own is proof enough that all psychics are fake.

[Killer Blob]

As regards a "magician" being thrown out of a skeptic meeting. I don't think this has ever happened in the UK. Certainly not at a SitP meeting where we have had magicians such as Tony Youens as guest speaker and pagans such as Steve Wilson as guest speaker as well as a wide variety of magicians and religious weirdos in attendance over the years.

I don't think anyone has ever been asked to leave at all. If the odd person has been spoken to, it was for shouting and abuse, not their beliefs or profession. There was one pagan who used to interupt everyone and shout, it was made clear to him (after the second or third meeting he had done this at) that he wasn't really welcome. It certainly had nothing to do with his belief that he could perform "real" magic. And he wasn't actually asked to go anyway.

[Ynty]

how can you possibly spot a fake posing as a psychic?

They are all fakes so every one that you spot, you know is a fake.

Probably true, though some may not know they are fakes; there' an interesting article on the CSICOP site by a forrmer psychic who became a skeptic and believes she used cold reading techniques unconsciously.

Of course, if I wanted to be very annoying I'd talk about the problem of induction and why finding 1000 fakes doesn't prove that the 1001st is a fake. But that woould be silly nd annoying, so i won't.

Given the importance of stage magicians in skeptical enquiry, from Houdini to James Randi, I'd be very surprised if any meeting was so daft as to ask soemone to leave for that reason. Did you see the article about magic and perception in New Scientist a few weeks ago?

[Psychic Logan]

[quote="Baz94"]Just a quesion guys.





I heard that someone attended a skeptiks meating but was asked to leave...

Y’all limey skeptic arsoles… throwing a psychic out one of your God dam’ Skeptic meetings. Let them try it with me, I’ll kick their arse so high they'll be able to clean their teeth and wipe their butt at the same time!

God Bless America!

[Dappadee]

Y’all limey skeptic arsoles… throwing a psychic out one of your God dam’ Skeptic meetings. Let them try it with me, I’ll kick their arse so high they'll be able to clean their teeth and wipe their butt at the same time!

God Bless America!

I smell troll.

[Peter Jones]

Just a quesion guys.





I heard that someone attended a skeptiks meating but was asked to leave...

Y’all limey skeptic arsoles… throwing a psychic out one of your God dam’ Skeptic meetings. Let them try it with me, I’ll kick their arse so high they'll be able to clean their teeth and wipe their butt at the same time!

God Bless America!

The only knuckles that will bleed in this fight will be yours dragging on the floor! How can such a God fearing man can be so aggressive? :x

[Abdul Alhazred]

I came to skepticism at least partly by way of magic.

Check out this site: http://www.randi.org

Full disclosure: I'm there, too.

[Layla]

Magic is one of my passions. The whole aspect of debunking certain illusions fascinated me and led me to my skeptical outlook. One of the most defining moments of my life was finding a book on magic that had a section on cold-readng and it was a like a light bulb going on. From there I read Houdinis exposures of physics and then I was spiritually home.......I was a skeptic!! I had a name fr it :)

I particularly admire magicians like Ian Russell (I think thats his name) who does the most stunning 'psychic' tricks but makes it clear that it's all hokum. I believe he still gets people who try and convince him he has real powers. Sometimes people just want to believe.