I'd really like to get an understanding of what you beleive or not because I was truly amazed to find people like this when 70% of Americans use alternative medicine. I will put my own answers in brackets at the end of each question.
1. Do you beleive synthethized plants (drugs) work better than the original plant from which they came from? [of course not, they're only synthetized to be profitable since the natural plant can't be patented and the synthethic drug can, increasing the profits from 30% to over 500,000%, not to mention drugs practically cost nothing to make, Xanax costs them 2 cents, they sell it for $136 in the US]
2. Do you think artificial orange juice is healthier than natural orange juice? [same as above, the synthetic version is just better for the company selling it since it's patentable and doesn't cost anything to make]
3. If you said "yes" to 1 and "no" to 2, how to you explained that synthethized fruit is worst and synthethized plants are better? They can only both be better or both be worst. [n/a]
4. Do you think diet (what you eat) has anything to do with the diseases you get? For example, would you agree hydrogenated oils cause heart disease and cancer as is widely known? [if anyone doesn't beleive this I will be truly amazed]
5. Do you think diet changes can improve or reverse diseases? [of course, as I said in my other posts, there is a diet proven to reverse crohn's disease, there's also diets that can reverse most diseases like diabetes, cancer, etc]
6. Do you think any herbal supplement has any real medicinal effect (I'm not talking about the placebo effect)? [of course, since that's were the drug is synthetized from, and to those of you saying the plants are so weak, that isn't quite true, they are weaker which is why you often need to take 2-6 pills instead of one, but it's much cheaper and the results are much better and there are no risks and side effects as is the case with drugs]
Please answer these, I'm curious to see what your answers will be to these questions.
What is it you skeptics don't beleive?
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• Page 1 of 1
What is it you skeptics don't beleive?
by aab1 » 05 Jun 2006, 19:40
Last edited by aab1 on 06 Jun 2006, 03:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What is it you skeptics don't beleive?
by Phil McKerracher » 05 Jun 2006, 22:43
OK, I'll bite:
It depends. If the active compound has been correctly identified and synthesized, the original and synthesized drugs will be chemically identical and there will be no difference, by definition. Usually, the synthesized version will be chemically purer and hence more potent. If it has been incorrectly identified or synthesized it will be less effective, but in that case it will rarely make it to the market because of all the (mandatory and very expensive) testing to ensure it's safe *and effective*.
Yes, sometimes. Not most diseases, though.
Can I now ask you a question in return?
What do you think of all the clinical trials that are performed on commercial drugs (at HUGE expense and risk)? Do you think they are all completely erroneous, a complete waste of money? How could so many people be so completely fooled? Are they all so incompetent that they can't count or can't read their instruments? Is there some huge conspiracy involving the entire medical establishment and half of government?
It just doesn't make sense to me. On the other hand, I can easily see how a change of diet might affect Crohn's disease. How can you generalise from that to say that the whole of convential medicine is a fraud? There's no connection.
aab1 wrote:1. Do you beleive synthethized plants (drugs) work better than the original plant from which they came from?
It depends. If the active compound has been correctly identified and synthesized, the original and synthesized drugs will be chemically identical and there will be no difference, by definition. Usually, the synthesized version will be chemically purer and hence more potent. If it has been incorrectly identified or synthesized it will be less effective, but in that case it will rarely make it to the market because of all the (mandatory and very expensive) testing to ensure it's safe *and effective*.
Not sure exactly what you mean by "artificial" here - I think you mean "processed" because I'm not aware of any juice that's synthesized "from scratch" as it were. Personally I prefer "natural", but even there you should be careful - the "natural" juice is probably more likely to be contaminated with some nasty bacteria or fungus and might be lacking in vitamin C if stored for any length of time.2. Do you think artificial orange juice is healthier than natural orange juice?
Of course!4. Do you think diet (what you eat) has anything to do with the diseases you get?
5. Do you think diet changes can improve or reverse diseases?
Yes, sometimes. Not most diseases, though.
Yes, sometimes. Again, I wouldn't agree (as you seem to claim) that you can generalise to say all, or even most, herbal supplements are therefore effective.6. Do you think any herbal supplement has any real medicinal effect...
Can I now ask you a question in return?
What do you think of all the clinical trials that are performed on commercial drugs (at HUGE expense and risk)? Do you think they are all completely erroneous, a complete waste of money? How could so many people be so completely fooled? Are they all so incompetent that they can't count or can't read their instruments? Is there some huge conspiracy involving the entire medical establishment and half of government?
It just doesn't make sense to me. On the other hand, I can easily see how a change of diet might affect Crohn's disease. How can you generalise from that to say that the whole of convential medicine is a fraud? There's no connection.
Phil McKerracher
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by aab1 » 06 Jun 2006, 02:59
Just one thing about the natural plants vs. drugs:
From what I read, the reason the natural version has no side effects and/or is more effective is because the plant contains not only the active ingredient, but also many other ingredients naturally found in the plant that cancel out the side effects of the active ingredient, so the natural version is a perfect blend of natural substaces designed by nature to work with the human body, the synthetic version is made by a company who's main goal is to make money, so they won't bother to synthetize all active ingredients to make an exact duplicate (which may be impossible or extremely expensive).
About convetional medicine, when it comes to disease is decades behind and put their profit above everything else which causes many of the problems I mentioned.
For physical injuries like if you're in an accident, then I'm obivously entirely for conventional treatments as they are the only option anyway, you obviously can't cure broken arms or punctured kidneys with echinacea.
The problems come when you use convetional medicine to "treat" diseases.
Yes, there are clinical trials, but remember the money that's at stake (every drug approved is an automatic billions in returned profits) and the fact that it is not the government (FDA, Health Canada, etc) that tests these drugs but the manufacturer's themselves! So obviously that's a big conflict of interest that causes many problems since it is the ones who will be profiting if it is approved that decide whether it will be approved or not! How can you trust them? There's no bigger conflict of interest than that!
For example, cholesterol drugs have been proven by independant studies to be worthless for heart disease/preventing heart attacks and they actually cause alzheimers and cancer, so the people who have been fooled into taking these are doing nothing but giving themselves cancer and alzheimers (and a few other mental and muscular diseases).
How did it get approved then? Well they knew that like 80% of americans have high cholesterol and that it would be [and is] by far the most sold drug ever made, and yet it's 100% useless and 100% dangerous. And since it's the drug company's own job to evaluate it, they fake the positive effects they aree looking for and hide the negative side effects, making the killer drug look like a life saving drug.
Aspartame is another good example, this was supposed to be a prescription drug to treat ulcers, but when the scientists found it tasted sweet they decided to use it as a sweetener for food. The studies clearly showed aspartame to be highly carcinogenic and toxic, and keep in mind it's not even being used as a drug to treat diseases, it's used as a sweetener, and even then they hid the deadly side effects because again there were billions in profits per year at stake, and they don't care they're killing people and making them sick just to make a sweetener with 0 calories, that has in fact been shown to cause more weight gain than sugar since it increases appetite.
So you see, those "scientific" studies are always modified to only look for positive effects and hide the deadly side effects.
You can call it a conspiracy if you want, but it's really just greed went out of control.
Also don't forget that by law, publicly traded companies like drug comapnies MUST put their profits before EVERYTHING else, each day they must make more money than the day before, and the only way that can happen is if people get sicker and sicker, which is exactly the case, nearly every disease is on the rise, because drug companies rely on the continuation of disease for profit.
Do you understand now why drug companies never have and never will find a cure for any disease? Finding a cure means patients will all go off their drugs, meaning the drug companies would loose billions per disease that would be cured, so why would they want any cures at all? They don't, because their main goal is to make money, and you make money by prolonging people's disease like they were doing to me instead of curing them.
Please, think about this properly for a while, why would drug companies want a cure for anything? The only thing they want is to prolong people's disease and make sure more and more people are diseased, thus ensuring their goal of making more money is being met.
Why do you think it's now 1 in 2 people that get cancer during their life at least here in America & Canada? Cancer rates are higher than ever and still going up, because that's how drug companies reach their goal of making more money. The more disease there is, the higher the profit.
I fully understand how this can be hard to beleive, but put yourself in my position, I had a suposedly "incurable" disease, I was told I needed surgery and to be on chemotherapy for the rest of my life (the doctors never even told me the drug they put me on was chemotherapy!).
After a few years I was just sick of poisoning myself daily with chemo and decided to do some research, to my surprise, I found there are natural products proven more effective than drugs in nearly all cases. I also saw that diet that "cures" crohn's as long as you follow the diet and have never felt better since being off chemo and following a healthy diet and taking natural supplements.
You need to understand drugs never address the cause of diseases, they just mask symptoms, they are "band aid" solutions with serious side effects. Taking a drug, when you understand how they work, is as silly as putting a black sticker over your check engine light in your car. Sure the symptom is gone, you no longer see the check engine light. Does that mean the engine was fixed by putting a sticker on the check engine light? Of course not, it's in fact getting worst and worst until it will eventually break because you didn't take care of it. And it's actually worst than that since sticking a sticker on the light will not cause other problems as taking a drug to "treat" a disease will do.
I don't know anyone who would do such a silly thing to their car, yet I know many people doing even worst to their own bodies because they and their doctors are misinformed.
Doctors are not taught anything other then how to prescribe drugs, so they are really just drug pushers, they know nothing about health, diet, vitamins, natural products, the cause of diseases or anything like that. All they know is how to sell drugs, so is it any wonder that conventional medicine is the #1 cause of death in the united states, killing from 2,000 to 40,000 people per DAY (not per year, per DAY)?
I can tell you right now that for diseases, I will never use conventional medicine again. Whether I get heart disease, cancer, arthiritis, diabetes (which is all very unlikely since I know the cause of these diseases and have eliminated them), but if ever I got any of those like cancer, I would absolutely not use convetional medicine at all, I wouldn't even consider it, I've done lots of research on this and the success rate with cancer using "alternative" medicine is around 90%, while with conventional treatments is 3%. Before saying this is ridiculous, do some research.
Last year I probably would have said "yea right, are you insane? there's no way weak treatments like that can cure a serious disease like cancer, you beleive anything you read".
Please, all of our lives depend on this, do some research on the true cause of cancer and what it is, when you understand what it is, whatn causes it, how it develops, etc, the cures make clear as day sense.
Remember that the human body is a self-repairing machine, the proof is if you cut yourself with a knife it will heal in a few days, the same is true with virtually every disease. But the reason things like crohn's and cancer don't cure by themselves is because the cause of the disease remain unaddressed. Imagine sticking a knife in your skin and leaving it there, obviosuly the cut will never heal, well when you get cancer, you need to "pull the knife out", because of you leave the cause of your cancer there, you can take all the drugs and chemo you want, it won't cure your cancer, and if it does, it will come back in no time because the "knife" is still there.
Also keep in mind that, at least in USA and Canada, nearly 95% of foods in the grovery store have at LEAST one cancer causing ingredient, so the first step to cure cancer is stop eating cancer causing foods (eat only organic raw fruits, vegetables and nuts during the time you have cancer), then you need to rid your body of the accumulated cancer causing chemicals that are in your blood. Things like chlorella are proven to purify the blood and body and remove these toxic chemicals, in fact, chlorella by itself has shown tremendous help in cancer patients, whether or not they are gullible enough to fall for chemotherapy.
In my case with crohn's, my "knife" was sugar, grains and dairy in the diet, so of course as long as I keep eating those foods the disease will never go away.
The problem is that convetional medicine never targets the cause of any disease, they only mask symptoms with drugs that cause more problems down the road, which explains why the success rate with naturopathic doctors is so much higher since they get at the cause of the disease.
I understand it can take time to adjust your beleifs if you're at all open to this, I had to adjust pretty fast, but I already had a lot of doubts on conventional medicine from the way I was treated and the things doctors told me, which often seemed to make no sense, such as telling me what I eat has nothing to do with my health (yes, doctors actually beleive that, amazing isn't it?).
I hope this makes sense to you and please inform yourself, I don't know how conventional medicine is in the UK, but here in Canada and the USA it's a total joke to those of us like me who know what they are really doing.
People here at least are starting to wake up, more so in the USA since they don't have health coverage which makes a good insentive to use alternative and more efficient medicine than drugs and surgery that more often than not do more harm than good since they never address the cause of the disease and more often than not cause another disease to develop.
The reason doctors are being fooled into using drugs and surgery is because that's all they are taught, so they are in turn unknowingly fooling their patients because they themselves have been fooled into using ineffective treatments that have only been chosen based on how much profit they return and not based on science, because if it were based on science they would be using diet, natural products etc since these are proven more effective in most cases. Of course some people still need drugs, but these are very rare cases, in 99% of cases you can avoid drugs but it will probably mean changing your diet. Some people aren't willing to cahnge their diet, even to cure serious disease, plus anyway they are fooled by the doctors into thinking diet has nothing to do with it, ensuring they keep eating what's making them sick, which in turn ensures the sale of expensive, dangerous and ineffective drugs as both the doctor and patient have been fooled to thinking that by the drug companies.
I hope this helps understand how this "conspiracy" (if you want to call it that) is working.
From what I read, the reason the natural version has no side effects and/or is more effective is because the plant contains not only the active ingredient, but also many other ingredients naturally found in the plant that cancel out the side effects of the active ingredient, so the natural version is a perfect blend of natural substaces designed by nature to work with the human body, the synthetic version is made by a company who's main goal is to make money, so they won't bother to synthetize all active ingredients to make an exact duplicate (which may be impossible or extremely expensive).
About convetional medicine, when it comes to disease is decades behind and put their profit above everything else which causes many of the problems I mentioned.
For physical injuries like if you're in an accident, then I'm obivously entirely for conventional treatments as they are the only option anyway, you obviously can't cure broken arms or punctured kidneys with echinacea.
The problems come when you use convetional medicine to "treat" diseases.
Yes, there are clinical trials, but remember the money that's at stake (every drug approved is an automatic billions in returned profits) and the fact that it is not the government (FDA, Health Canada, etc) that tests these drugs but the manufacturer's themselves! So obviously that's a big conflict of interest that causes many problems since it is the ones who will be profiting if it is approved that decide whether it will be approved or not! How can you trust them? There's no bigger conflict of interest than that!
For example, cholesterol drugs have been proven by independant studies to be worthless for heart disease/preventing heart attacks and they actually cause alzheimers and cancer, so the people who have been fooled into taking these are doing nothing but giving themselves cancer and alzheimers (and a few other mental and muscular diseases).
How did it get approved then? Well they knew that like 80% of americans have high cholesterol and that it would be [and is] by far the most sold drug ever made, and yet it's 100% useless and 100% dangerous. And since it's the drug company's own job to evaluate it, they fake the positive effects they aree looking for and hide the negative side effects, making the killer drug look like a life saving drug.
Aspartame is another good example, this was supposed to be a prescription drug to treat ulcers, but when the scientists found it tasted sweet they decided to use it as a sweetener for food. The studies clearly showed aspartame to be highly carcinogenic and toxic, and keep in mind it's not even being used as a drug to treat diseases, it's used as a sweetener, and even then they hid the deadly side effects because again there were billions in profits per year at stake, and they don't care they're killing people and making them sick just to make a sweetener with 0 calories, that has in fact been shown to cause more weight gain than sugar since it increases appetite.
So you see, those "scientific" studies are always modified to only look for positive effects and hide the deadly side effects.
You can call it a conspiracy if you want, but it's really just greed went out of control.
Also don't forget that by law, publicly traded companies like drug comapnies MUST put their profits before EVERYTHING else, each day they must make more money than the day before, and the only way that can happen is if people get sicker and sicker, which is exactly the case, nearly every disease is on the rise, because drug companies rely on the continuation of disease for profit.
Do you understand now why drug companies never have and never will find a cure for any disease? Finding a cure means patients will all go off their drugs, meaning the drug companies would loose billions per disease that would be cured, so why would they want any cures at all? They don't, because their main goal is to make money, and you make money by prolonging people's disease like they were doing to me instead of curing them.
Please, think about this properly for a while, why would drug companies want a cure for anything? The only thing they want is to prolong people's disease and make sure more and more people are diseased, thus ensuring their goal of making more money is being met.
Why do you think it's now 1 in 2 people that get cancer during their life at least here in America & Canada? Cancer rates are higher than ever and still going up, because that's how drug companies reach their goal of making more money. The more disease there is, the higher the profit.
I fully understand how this can be hard to beleive, but put yourself in my position, I had a suposedly "incurable" disease, I was told I needed surgery and to be on chemotherapy for the rest of my life (the doctors never even told me the drug they put me on was chemotherapy!).
After a few years I was just sick of poisoning myself daily with chemo and decided to do some research, to my surprise, I found there are natural products proven more effective than drugs in nearly all cases. I also saw that diet that "cures" crohn's as long as you follow the diet and have never felt better since being off chemo and following a healthy diet and taking natural supplements.
You need to understand drugs never address the cause of diseases, they just mask symptoms, they are "band aid" solutions with serious side effects. Taking a drug, when you understand how they work, is as silly as putting a black sticker over your check engine light in your car. Sure the symptom is gone, you no longer see the check engine light. Does that mean the engine was fixed by putting a sticker on the check engine light? Of course not, it's in fact getting worst and worst until it will eventually break because you didn't take care of it. And it's actually worst than that since sticking a sticker on the light will not cause other problems as taking a drug to "treat" a disease will do.
I don't know anyone who would do such a silly thing to their car, yet I know many people doing even worst to their own bodies because they and their doctors are misinformed.
Doctors are not taught anything other then how to prescribe drugs, so they are really just drug pushers, they know nothing about health, diet, vitamins, natural products, the cause of diseases or anything like that. All they know is how to sell drugs, so is it any wonder that conventional medicine is the #1 cause of death in the united states, killing from 2,000 to 40,000 people per DAY (not per year, per DAY)?
I can tell you right now that for diseases, I will never use conventional medicine again. Whether I get heart disease, cancer, arthiritis, diabetes (which is all very unlikely since I know the cause of these diseases and have eliminated them), but if ever I got any of those like cancer, I would absolutely not use convetional medicine at all, I wouldn't even consider it, I've done lots of research on this and the success rate with cancer using "alternative" medicine is around 90%, while with conventional treatments is 3%. Before saying this is ridiculous, do some research.
Last year I probably would have said "yea right, are you insane? there's no way weak treatments like that can cure a serious disease like cancer, you beleive anything you read".
Please, all of our lives depend on this, do some research on the true cause of cancer and what it is, when you understand what it is, whatn causes it, how it develops, etc, the cures make clear as day sense.
Remember that the human body is a self-repairing machine, the proof is if you cut yourself with a knife it will heal in a few days, the same is true with virtually every disease. But the reason things like crohn's and cancer don't cure by themselves is because the cause of the disease remain unaddressed. Imagine sticking a knife in your skin and leaving it there, obviosuly the cut will never heal, well when you get cancer, you need to "pull the knife out", because of you leave the cause of your cancer there, you can take all the drugs and chemo you want, it won't cure your cancer, and if it does, it will come back in no time because the "knife" is still there.
Also keep in mind that, at least in USA and Canada, nearly 95% of foods in the grovery store have at LEAST one cancer causing ingredient, so the first step to cure cancer is stop eating cancer causing foods (eat only organic raw fruits, vegetables and nuts during the time you have cancer), then you need to rid your body of the accumulated cancer causing chemicals that are in your blood. Things like chlorella are proven to purify the blood and body and remove these toxic chemicals, in fact, chlorella by itself has shown tremendous help in cancer patients, whether or not they are gullible enough to fall for chemotherapy.
In my case with crohn's, my "knife" was sugar, grains and dairy in the diet, so of course as long as I keep eating those foods the disease will never go away.
The problem is that convetional medicine never targets the cause of any disease, they only mask symptoms with drugs that cause more problems down the road, which explains why the success rate with naturopathic doctors is so much higher since they get at the cause of the disease.
I understand it can take time to adjust your beleifs if you're at all open to this, I had to adjust pretty fast, but I already had a lot of doubts on conventional medicine from the way I was treated and the things doctors told me, which often seemed to make no sense, such as telling me what I eat has nothing to do with my health (yes, doctors actually beleive that, amazing isn't it?).
I hope this makes sense to you and please inform yourself, I don't know how conventional medicine is in the UK, but here in Canada and the USA it's a total joke to those of us like me who know what they are really doing.
People here at least are starting to wake up, more so in the USA since they don't have health coverage which makes a good insentive to use alternative and more efficient medicine than drugs and surgery that more often than not do more harm than good since they never address the cause of the disease and more often than not cause another disease to develop.
The reason doctors are being fooled into using drugs and surgery is because that's all they are taught, so they are in turn unknowingly fooling their patients because they themselves have been fooled into using ineffective treatments that have only been chosen based on how much profit they return and not based on science, because if it were based on science they would be using diet, natural products etc since these are proven more effective in most cases. Of course some people still need drugs, but these are very rare cases, in 99% of cases you can avoid drugs but it will probably mean changing your diet. Some people aren't willing to cahnge their diet, even to cure serious disease, plus anyway they are fooled by the doctors into thinking diet has nothing to do with it, ensuring they keep eating what's making them sick, which in turn ensures the sale of expensive, dangerous and ineffective drugs as both the doctor and patient have been fooled to thinking that by the drug companies.
I hope this helps understand how this "conspiracy" (if you want to call it that) is working.
- aab1
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- Joined: 29 Mar 2006, 09:42
by aab1 » 06 Jun 2006, 03:23
Wait a second, I just noticed you admited alternative medicine can work when you said a change of diet can reverse disease.
Beleive it or not, but dietary approaches to treating diseases is considered "alternative" medicine at least in US/Canada and most doctors beleive and insist that diet has absolutely nothing to do with health or disease, do you understand now why I say the real quackery is conventional medicine? How can they even beleive that bullsh*t?
Surely you must at least agree with this?
By the way, most diseases can in fact be dramatically improved if not completly cured using diet changes, this includes diseases like depression, ADHD, asthma, crohn's, ulcerative colitis, psoriasis, arthritis, diabetes, cancer, and much more, probably at least 95% of diseases, because if you just feed your body the right foods, it will repair itself of nearly any disease, just like a cut heals by itself when the cause of the cut is removed.
Do a google search for "<disease name> diet" without the quotes, where <disease name> is the name of the disease you want to find diet information about and you'll find lots of information and probably studies (remember there is no incentive on studying the efficiency of diets in treating diseases since there won't be a penny of profit to be made even if it's proven effective, it's a diet, not a drug that can be sold and make billions, in fact, billions would be lost in drug sales if doctors were to learn that diseases can be reversed by diet changes).
For example, the SCD diet that "cures" crohn's has been well known for over 50 years, and they've managed to keep this secret all this time as to not interfere with the sale of chemotherapy drugs.
Beleive it or not, but dietary approaches to treating diseases is considered "alternative" medicine at least in US/Canada and most doctors beleive and insist that diet has absolutely nothing to do with health or disease, do you understand now why I say the real quackery is conventional medicine? How can they even beleive that bullsh*t?
Surely you must at least agree with this?
By the way, most diseases can in fact be dramatically improved if not completly cured using diet changes, this includes diseases like depression, ADHD, asthma, crohn's, ulcerative colitis, psoriasis, arthritis, diabetes, cancer, and much more, probably at least 95% of diseases, because if you just feed your body the right foods, it will repair itself of nearly any disease, just like a cut heals by itself when the cause of the cut is removed.
Do a google search for "<disease name> diet" without the quotes, where <disease name> is the name of the disease you want to find diet information about and you'll find lots of information and probably studies (remember there is no incentive on studying the efficiency of diets in treating diseases since there won't be a penny of profit to be made even if it's proven effective, it's a diet, not a drug that can be sold and make billions, in fact, billions would be lost in drug sales if doctors were to learn that diseases can be reversed by diet changes).
For example, the SCD diet that "cures" crohn's has been well known for over 50 years, and they've managed to keep this secret all this time as to not interfere with the sale of chemotherapy drugs.
- aab1
- Posts: 104
- Joined: 29 Mar 2006, 09:42
by Killer Blob » 06 Jun 2006, 11:41
[quote="aab1"]Wait a second, I just noticed you admited alternative medicine can work when you said a change of diet can reverse disease.
[/quote]
If it works then it's not an alternative, it IS medicine, or at least a healthier lifestyle or whatever. We're not trying to rubbish everything you say, you are trying to rubbish every known fact about real medicine. In the process you keep making completely stupid assumptions about skeptics and what they think.
I've been a vegetarian for 20 years. I think my diet has helped me to stay healthy. That has nothing to do with "alternative" medicine. But if I am ill I'm not going to turn to magic potions rather than real medicine that will have a real effect on me.
[/quote]
If it works then it's not an alternative, it IS medicine, or at least a healthier lifestyle or whatever. We're not trying to rubbish everything you say, you are trying to rubbish every known fact about real medicine. In the process you keep making completely stupid assumptions about skeptics and what they think.
I've been a vegetarian for 20 years. I think my diet has helped me to stay healthy. That has nothing to do with "alternative" medicine. But if I am ill I'm not going to turn to magic potions rather than real medicine that will have a real effect on me.
Carl Sagan - "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
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by Phil McKerracher » 06 Jun 2006, 14:45
...the natural version is a perfect blend of natural substaces designed by nature to work with the human body...
No! No! No! Most plants are "designed by nature" to RESIST being eaten and have evolved some pretty nasty alkaloids etc. in the process. The exception is fruits, but even these are more likely designed to be eaten by birds than apes.
We have evolved some cunning enzymes etc. that allow us to eat some plants (for example, we can eat chocolate but it's poisonous to cats) but it's certainly NOT safe to eat any old plant you find in your garden.
In general, all the extra substances in plants make them LESS safe than the "purified" extracts - it's more likely that someone will have an allergic reaction, for example. Occasionally it works the other way, but that's the exception.
Phil McKerracher
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by Phil McKerracher » 07 Jun 2006, 11:49
Beleive it or not, but dietary approaches to treating diseases is considered "alternative" medicine at least in US/Canada...
Not! Watching your diet has always been an essential aspect of conventional medicine. Surely you were taught about a balanced diet (the five food groups etc) in primary school?
Phil McKerracher
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by aab1 » 26 Jul 2006, 06:33
Phil McKerracher wrote:In general, all the extra substances in plants make them LESS safe than the "purified" extracts - it's more likely that someone will have an allergic reaction, for example. Occasionally it works the other way, but that's the exception.
Wow... amazing, and you honestly beleive that? I ahve an intersting statistic for you:
Natural suplements (real medicine that works with no side effects or ridiculous costs), have NEVER killed anyone when used in the proper dose and rarely if ever have side effects (yes, people died taking ephedra, but those where in massive overdoses), while at the same time, prescription drugs are the 3rd leading cause of death in the USA, they all have side effects, and kill 106,000 people and injure 2,000,000 people a year also when used in the proper doses (this is according to conventional medicine themselves who downplay these numbers, and it's still shocking!).
Explain to me then how drugs are safe if they are the 3rd leading cause of death and killing 106,000 people a year while natural medicine has never killed anyone in the proper dose? Statistics don't lie, and this isn't a clse call, we're talking 106,000 deahts VS. 0, zilch, none, nada.
And that's excluding the fact that conveitonal medicine is the #1 cause of death in the USA (if you combine drug deaths, surgery deaths and other medical mistakes), conventonal medicine kills 784,000 CONFIRMED deaths per year (that's equivalent to Sept 11th occuring every single day!) and other studies show only 5 to 20% of deaths are reported, so it could be up to 20 million deaths a year directly caused by drugs, surgery, or other medical mistakes.
By the way, when I said diet is considered alternative medicine, I'm talkign about diet to CURE diseases, not prevent. Convetional medicine will almost never (only the 1% of doctors that know that diseases can be cured through diet) tell you that diseases can be CURED by diet changes, as I've said a few times I was put on chemo for life when I was diagnosed with crohn's disease at the age of 17, but 6 years later thorugh my own research I found studies showing that crohn's can be cured in 95% of cases with a diet change (eliminete dairy, grains and sugar, 3 disease causing "foods", or rather poisons). Diabetes can also be cured by diet changes, this is more widely known so this may not surprise you. In fact, most diseases can be reversed and cured by diet changes with FAR greater success than ANY drug or surgery, which both do nothing to address the cause of the disease which is simply the toxic foods we're eating.
How can you not say it mis insanely cruel to mislead doctors and patients (the doctors are being fooled too, they aren't making people suffer purposefully) like this for profit? People with crohn's do NOT need chemo, they need to stop poisoning themselves and their body will repair itself automatically (the so called "foods" are the direct cause of most diseases, for example dairy and chlorinated water causes heart disease and cancer, sugar causes diabetes and cancer, red meat causes heart disease and colon cancer, etc. and eliminating the foods that are causing the disease is the only proper way to be cured, and barely a single conventional doctor knows this).
Last edited by aab1 on 26 Jul 2006, 06:48, edited 3 times in total.
- aab1
- Posts: 104
- Joined: 29 Mar 2006, 09:42
by aab1 » 26 Jul 2006, 06:46
I just noticed you are in the UK and answered one of my statements as if you knew how thigns work here in Canada, what is considered alternative here often is convetional in Europe.
So perhaps diet is a convetional treatment in the UK (do you know anyone with crohn's? if so, did their doctor put them on chemo drugs for life like they did me, or did they simply tell him to change his diet and the disease would cure itself?). I also know conventional medicine uses many natural products instead of drugs in Europe because they are proven to be more effective, but here, there isn't a single doctor that is taught anything about the benefits of natural products, doctors here know 2 things and 2 things only: how to sell drugs and how to do surgery, NOTHING else, not even nutrition, ask a doctor here about nutriotion and they won't be able to answer a question, is it like this in the UK?
Perhaps this is why we haven't been agreeing, because what is alternative here is often convetional in Europe.
So perhaps diet is a convetional treatment in the UK (do you know anyone with crohn's? if so, did their doctor put them on chemo drugs for life like they did me, or did they simply tell him to change his diet and the disease would cure itself?). I also know conventional medicine uses many natural products instead of drugs in Europe because they are proven to be more effective, but here, there isn't a single doctor that is taught anything about the benefits of natural products, doctors here know 2 things and 2 things only: how to sell drugs and how to do surgery, NOTHING else, not even nutrition, ask a doctor here about nutriotion and they won't be able to answer a question, is it like this in the UK?
Perhaps this is why we haven't been agreeing, because what is alternative here is often convetional in Europe.
- aab1
- Posts: 104
- Joined: 29 Mar 2006, 09:42
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